NOT WAITING FOR YOU!!!

So in light of the new XPAC on the way ..Mists Of Pandira.. i want to make something clear for all us current raiders. "WE WILL NOT BE WAITING FOR YOU" My goal is to lvl as fast as i can on my main and to get geared in the prosess so i can start Raiding asap! this mean there will be NO gar-O-tee spot for "ANYONE" this means myself
So IMO i would do what you can to make things go fast if you want a spot in the 10 man raid team. This means putting together a group to farm content with and so on. Also we will need professions maxed as this will help out alot in 5.0 raiding.
so in this TOPIC i would like to hear everyones plans on what they will do at launch???
will you do dung? or maybe even just quest to 90?
And i say this cuz a large portion of our Officers want our Guild to be TOP FN TIER on U.S. Hellscream And this will have alot to do with how fast we can get into and down raid content.

Let's just say I'm not sleeping till I am lvl 90 and then perhaps ill sleep.

We will have a guild meeting soon to discuss a plan of action too.

We need the 10 man to split into two balanced teams in order to progress through the 5 mans as fast as possible. (You can always go back and "enjoy" them later)
Once we get our fugly green gear, we merge and start raiding.

I still haven't gotten my damn beta key. Even though Monj and I have had our subs since 2004 and both have annual pass.
But I read that it is culmative sub time that they add up, not year of sub. So even though we have been subbed since 2004, we have taken breaks from WoW. One break was for almost 2 years. So the culmative time we have played could be less than someone that didn't sub until 2006 or 2007, for example.

As soon as I get the beta though Fang...let's team up.

Truthfully the longer it takes for you to get into Beta the better.. right now every thing is so bugged and just not ready. im pretty sure EVERYTHING will undergo changes before Alpha. im just hoping my main acount stays active on the beta so when we reach alpha we can actually set up plans for getting thingts done and start raiding.. But we wont be raiding in Green gear lol.. the 85-90 dungs drop Blue 425ilvl+ gear as it stands now. and every class still needs to be balnced out a bit. but the two 5 mans sound great to me.. but my topic was just to tell our raiders that i really dont want to wait around for 2-3 months while they lvl to 90 and then take them an extra 1 month to gear up to be ready for raid there is going to be 14 bosses of raid tier and 5-7 heroic dungs.. so there will be soo much content to do; / i just hope our raid team gets a plan so we can dive into it asap. but back to the split of the team: im sure we will lose 30-40% of our raid group during this prosess so we will have to maybe(but hope not ) start from scratch on our 10 man build ;( its going to be a very busy start but i will try and help as much as i can. cuz I want to see content just as normal but im hoping to maybe boost it up a notch in our progression to get our guild up there on our server. and then we will have a bigger pool to choose from when we dive into heroics and if we arent going to do heroics you better tell me now damn it so i can find people who do :joker:

Well you can count on me, monj and manty for sure for Heroics. Hopefully the rest of our team as well.

But yes, every xpac loses some raiders and we definitely need a pool of people to choose from for heroics.

Only a few months away! Can't wait!

I have already planned my leveling, estimated actual time in questing is 43-60 hours, expected gear will be heroic 5man ready shortly after hitting 90, estimated time for my style, instance grinding, is 50-75hours, blued out with points to serve for epics/blues of vendor value. At 90 I will be grinding leathers for my skinning and LW, with a premade 5 man team, on at least 4hrs a day grinding on top of the REQUIRED quest grind (just like some in cata you will NEED MoP greens and blues to gear for the 5 mans due to the exponential stat changes) we should have a test raid group in 3 weeks TOPS, this means 1/? or 2/? in the first raid. More detailing when we actually get info on the raids to be released. Itemizing will be tougher though, they are planning on NOT having current tier items for badges. (instead of 397 epics we would have 384 SHIT for instance) LFR grinding will be a MUST for gearing. 10+ members of the guild will almost promise gearing options and roll checks. Actual times may differ, and I plan on being a tank and healer for the upcoming stuff. Sorry If my activity is draining, but I am a little disturbed at the process we are taking in trying to down things. A closed mind is a broken ruler, an open mind can measure any length.

lol Ash you realize you come across as an Ass most of the time, right?

That's why nobody listens to you. (I'm an honest person, sorry if that bothers you) People put you on ignore for a reason. You're a good raider, you had good dps in boom. A good player has value, but only to the extent that other people like raiding with you.

If you don't like the way we are raiding, or the way the raid leaders are running things, noone is stopping you from finding a different raid team. Hell, you could lead the 2nd team if you really want to (and think you know) how to progress. That would be more productive than the passive-aggressive complaining you do on a consistent basis.

I've held back saying anything about this because you seemed to be really trying. But it's getting old. Monj and Manty do their best to organize what we need for each heroic boss. They do the research and discuss how to go about each fight. Certainly they are not always correct in the raid make-up (variety of classes etc.) but try to remember that every class and role, at one time or another, isn't suitable for certain fights. That means you as well. If you want the raid leaders to be more "hard-core" that is going to mean cutting people and recruiting for exactly what we need in order to progress faster. That might mean you too.
For example, HM Ultrax needs a Holy pally to one heal it. Rado is our best shot at that. You and I are not needed for that fight.

See where I am going with this?
The Raid Leaders can either :
A. Use the classes we have to the best of our abilities
or
B. Starting cutting people who are :
1. Whiners
2. Not showing up regularly
3. Not speccing in the role that we need (ie, we don't need kitty dps, we needed your druid to be boom/resto)
4. Not pulling over 30k dps in any given HM fight.
5. Not productively and intelligently doing research and giving tips to the leaders (see number 1)

Right now our options are really only those two things.
Personally, I have respecced 3 times now due to trying to fill the role we need for HM Ultrax. But at the end of the day, a Disc priest isn't what we need to heal HM Ultrax. If I can pull numbers in Shadow, that's great. If not, I may have to sit out that fight for the sake of progression.

We've been patient with you, again, because you seemed to be trying. But please...stop bitching about how things are done. If you have suggestions, ask Monj or Manty to drop down to strat chat with you and make suggestions. Coming to the boards and complaining (albeit passive-aggressively) doesn't do you any good at all because neither of the raid leaders even reads these boards.

I come off as an ass, I know, It comes from my personality in raids, and I do apologize, but the only input I get it an unsaid "go fuck yourself". Other than this post, I've yet to see anything even relatively close to productive input. I don't mind being criticized, it helps me believe it or not.

Issue is that no one wants to just talk to me about something. Yes, I know we need a pally healer, hence why I was iffy about changing specs, but I was asked, and I have no issue doing so - If I had a solid raid spot as a boomkin I would gladly reforge all my gear again and go back to boomy, but I cant spec resto/boom due to the gear. If I had a second set of DPS gear for boom I would, but I would need doubles of EVERYTHING I already have, and I dont feel right taking gear that monjo needs for his offspec. My kitty DPS will eventually be on par with the boomkin though, already pulling solid 22k+ which Is only 7k lower than boomkin on regular fights.

I am sorry if I whine, but I come from years of being in top tier raid progression guilds, Play, Ascension, and many others, so I guess it rubs off on me a bit... On top of that stress in real life doesn't help much. I took my time last week that I didnt have internet to figure things out, and I feel a lot better. I stopped raiding on my other toons on Laughing skull due to the stress it brings having to run 3 raids a week. This week is looking better so far though. If yall want to swap me out for rado, I dont have any issue with it. The issue I came across a few weeks back was being removed and replaced with someone that pulls 6k less DPS and was innactive for raid nights for a month or so. This is in the past, and I realized then that it was just dumb for that to bother me.

*sigh*

But alas, I appreciate your input Rose, thanks for saying what is on your mind instead of just shrugging your shoulders and ignoring stuff. I'll be online tonight reguardless, but let me know what you want me to do, I like our raid team, and it's a good one, so I want to see progression. If I have to sit out for good, I will, but if yall want me to stay, decide now. I don't want to waste time gearing a spec that isn't going to be needed, it's just taking gear from others.

If Monj ever gives off the "fuck off" vibe, I guarantee you it is totally misinterpreted. He tries to be fair to everyone.
He is more than willing to listen to people who have suggestions. Just ask him to drop down into strat chat since he does get distracted in main vent chat.

Just remember, people are always willing to listen to suggestions if they are given in a productive and intelligent way. People will listen if they feel one is trying to be helpful, as opposed to simply complaining.

Being in top guilds might make a raider have higher expectations, but at the end of the day...people ultimately leave guilds like Play for a good reason.
Progression is good. It's fun. It's important to play the way you want to play; it's your dime. But...if the people are assholes...your dime is being spent using your free time having to deal with unpleasant (and un-fun) people. So you leave and try to find a guild with people you enjoy.
I think we tend to forget that when we get all rabid about wanting to progress.
Sure, some of us could leave and join a guild that is progressing faster. Being a healer (and a reasonably good one at that) I could have left and joined a faster progressing guild long ago. But I like the people in this guild. Took us 2 years to build a guild (and a raid group) of people that we truly enjoy raiding/ progressing with.

That is the very reason that Monj tries to keep us all together while progressing, rather than cutting people to fill class/roles.

In closing though...Monj is totally open to suggestions on how to beat this damn boss. Anyone with ideas (that are feasible) should feel free to make those ideas known. He tends to tone out any whining or complaining and hones in on productive advice. So I promise you...he will listen if you, or anyone else, has productive suggestions.

From all the reading I've been doing, the fight is most often, and most successfully done with a Holy Pally one healing it. Shaman healers are 2nd choice.
The wall we are up against right now is whether or not Rado can one heal it. He should have the DW mace and have all the optimal gear that is needed. But we had cut him from the HM raid for several weeks, so he doesn't have all the gear needed.
So we are stuck wondering what our options are at this point in the game.

Some have suggested moving to a different boss and coming back to HM Ultrax once Rado has the proper gear.

We really should all get in vent before the raid tonight and discuss our options so we don't waste time during the raid.

I'll be on early like always, we usually dont start till 9:30 or so anyway, so we can discuss things.

One ISSUE I have a a specific raider, I have NO idea what he is doing wrong, his gear is GODLIKE and his dps is so low its painful. We have been guildies through many a year, so I take that into mind for everything... but someone that understands his spec needs to figure out whats wrong.

As for rado, I have no idea what he can pull on a solo, mana would be his biggest issue, but without that mace from Madness a healer is almost useless. not meaning that in a bad way because I know its rare as hell, but in comparison it makes a MASSIVE difference. plus being a pally means he probably already has the shield to go with it, its pretty common. I need to write things down and submit them to my brain before allowing myself to speak out. Maybe that would make my thoughts slightly more productive. And monj always has an offbeat vibe, lol, it's what makes him....him....

as for the higher expectations thing... yeah, sorry, I realize that we are a casual progression guild, not a hardcore heroic guild, and the members we have are doing their best, I left play for a reason, I left ascension for a reason... hell, my fiance back when I was in play even noticed my attitude in real life was getting more aggressive, at somepoints she loved it (giggity), but sometimes it was annoying.

All in all, I am working on me. I was officially diagnosed with ASPD and hence was put to a counciling program to make sure I have it under control, but one thing they told me is that MMO's are one of the healthiest ways to let out my frustrations due to the non physical involvement.

At anyrate, I will be on tonight and figure it out. I'd love to move back to being a boomkin if one of our DPS could be a healer in my place, I think I could fill that DPS slot so much better, I mean, I am a competant healer, but it's not my forte. I can do it, and I guess I do ok, havent really been told otherwise (again, a lack of input...) but I haven't been a healer for a raid before now, always had the offspec, but never the actual gear, lol.

Well, while we are on this note, there are a few things we should get out there.

Warning: Long post

Here are some things that are not helping us progress:

1. Telling the raid leaders how "Play" or any other guild downed a specific boss. While it is interesting and worth reading/hearing about, it doesn't really help us. We don't have the same classes/roles as other guilds who have downed heroic bosses, so we cannot do it the exact same way.

2. The belief that Blizzard is stupid enough to make a Heroic boss fight only doable with a very specific raid make-up. I have wanted to bring this up for a while but haven't said anything. But frankly, it is rather stupid for anyone to believe that we "can only do the fight with x class and x roles" It's ridiculous.
Sure, a Holy Pally might be the easiest and best choice. But do you all really believe that it can't be done with ALL healing classes?
It seems to me that we waste an awful lot of time saying things like "Well, such and such guild did it with a blah blah blah"
So? We don't have a "blah blah blah class/role"
I bet my panties that we would be progressed further right now if we all stopped whining about "what we need" and worked harder as a team to make better "what we have"

The HM Ultrax wasn't even meant be one healed on heroic
You all know that, right?
If the dps does their research (Ash can help with the math) and is pulling maximum dps...we can two heal it.

3. The Boot and Recruit attitude.
It's getting annoying. I'm a guild leader, not a raid leader. I made raid leaders for a reason. If you want to recruit, do it. I try really hard to be a good Guild Leader but I am frankly, a shitty Raid Leader.
There are many resources for recruiting, including MMO and Battlenet Forums.
Remember that recruiting doesn't mean we are going to progress faster. It takes time to learn to mesh with new people. Raid dynamic has as much to do with it as mechanics. We aren't going to progress if the new recruits rage quit in Firelands (lol Elvus)
Recruiting in order to progress isn't a "magical answer"
It is actually likely to slow us down.
We got Elvus and booted Rado. We lost Elvus and we lost Myk and now we need Rado to be geared to heal HM Ultrax.
Fail recruit.

4. Making excuses.
Being tired and "falling asleep" during raids. We totally appreciate your devotion and determination to show up to the raids, don't get me wrong. But it doesn't help us, at all, if you are playing poorly because you are tired or stressed out.
We all respect your real life. If you have classes, or family issues or other obligations...or are too tired to play, please...let someone know you can't make it. Listening to people say they are falling asleep an hour into the raid is annoying at least and unproductive at most.

5. Leaving the raid for 20 to go to SW for whatever reason.
We only have 2 hours to raid. Stop it. Do whatever you need to do before or after the raid. Unless we have to go to SW to pug or grab something during the 2 min. break...it's wasting everyone's time.

6. Not showing up to the raid without letting someone know you are going to be absent.
No brainer why this slows progression.

7. Getting a sandy vagina because we are wiping.
We have guild repairs. It isn't costing you anything but time.
Even the top guilds wipe 50+ times on each HM boss past Morch before they down it.
Stop expecting it to happen quickly.
If you don't like wiping, don't HM raid.

If each one of us researches our toon and maximizes what we can pull as dps and heals...we can do it.

Ass...(lol) do the math. You are our mathboy. Figure out what we need with what we have What kind of numbers does each our raid group members need to be pulling before the 5 minute timer?
What is the raw amount of healing we need?

Let's please stop swapping people out already and get the raid team we have maximized so we can progress.
As it is, we are flailing around. We really need to focus on the raid team we have right now and get this shit down.
Technically, any raid group consisting of the the correct number of dps and heals can down all Heroic bosses, if played right.

See you guys in a few hours! <3

I have officially done my reading for the day O.O lol.

Ok math... hmm..

Ok, HM Ultrax has 85M health. We are at a 15% debuff now so we are down to roughly 72.24M

We have the soft enrage points ( every minute he increases how fast he attacks with the AoE) so at 4minutes he is hitting us for a shared 300000 every 3 seconds. at 4minutes we should have him at 20% or less or we will hit the double damage soft enrage. (every 2 seconds we take gobs of damage) so the overall goal of the fight is 5minutes flat. 5.5minutes is reasonable WITH a lot of power healing that I dont even know if rose could handle, lol.

1. So - 73M roughly in 5minutes. 300 seconds.
thats 240833 damage done PER second.at an AVERAGE of 34.5K PER PERSON (counting both tanks as 1 person, and 6 DPS). Sustained for the whole fight. Right now we have a sustained average (same algorithm) of 29.8K DPS. Our tanks are right at 30k combined, and our DPS tops are 36k sustained (fang) but our lowest is 23.2k sustained (Bey, sorry bud) and everyone else falls in the middle.

Overall either fang learns to DPS 70K the whole fight, or we need to keep gearing before we are ready for ultrax.

2. Even pushing to the last second (5 Minutes and 59seconds) we have numbers!

same health, but only 201253 DPS overall.
That puts us at 28750 average per the SAME situation. This means we CAN do it, if NO ONE Dies or coughs, sneezes, lags, derps, or otherwise misses a hit.

Finally we have the 1 healer strat.
This would require us to have 1 healer go DPS and actually be capable of 35K'ish and the other healer be able to survive for us. With this strat we see this ---


3. Same health (redundancy check and confirmation turned off and disabled) same 300 second DPS overall, but at a lowered 30104DPS average ( almost 5k less) and could be doable if said standin DPS can pull 34-35k (it may go a little passed the 5Minute mark)

and final representation ---

4. the OMG we are about to wipe - kill.
5Minutes 59seconds - 359 seconds.
201253 DPS overall
25156 DPS average. This is 100% doable. granted the healer was in the first tier of the next raid. Healing numbers would be exhausting.

Healing numbers... Based on estimations (and these have VERY little basis since I dont really watch numbers that much) based on the 4 strats above, numbered.

1. Each healer will be averaged at about 33k HPS at the end.
2. Each healer will be averaged at 40k HPS or so in the end.
3. One healer averaged at 55k-65k in the end.
4. One healer averaged at (this is out there guys) 90k - 110k.

Rose can do 40-45k on her own no problem. We all know this. probably A LOT higher if she were alone.

These are my crunches, I state this now though, they are CRUNCHES not fact. Based on our raid make-up we have about a 50-65% chance of survival at any rate. But again, this isn't fact, its just numbers, do your own math if you want, and i promise you will have the (edit) ABOUT the same numbers (other than Healing since I am not even 50% on that)

I figured out how to work the green crystal BTW

so with that, crystal grab priorities!

Our group (disc/ druid)
red - Disc
Green and Blue - Druid

With shammy/ disc

red - disc
Green- shammy
Blue- tossup

Pally/Disc

red- disc
Green/blue - pally

Shammy/Pally

Red/blue- pally
Green - shammy

That is actually a huge help Ash. Thanks for taking the time to do that math.

So in derp terms for the rest of us, what Ash is saying is we need either:

1. Each and every dps to be doing over 31k (minimum) consistently, throughout the entire fight, in order to 2 heal it.

We cannot 1 heal it right now. Rado simply does not have the gear.

So in harsh terms...here is my question: Is it possible for every one of our dps classes to pull over 31k, in the gear they are currently wearing? I am NOT asking if the individual can, I am asking if your class in your gear can pull over 31k?

I believe the answer is yes. Every one of our dps has gear enough to pull that dps. Why they are not, I have no idea.

Let's be honest here...the only way we are going to down HM Ultrax is if either our dps does what they need to do (respec, pre-pot etc etc) or we wait several weeks for Rado to get the gear he needs to single heal the fight.
I'm not interested in continuing to try Ultrax if one of these things doesn't happen.

Either we ask the dps to step it up or we put it all on Rado and make him one heal because of our low dps.

You choose.

On a side note, we DO have the gear and DPS for Yor, if elf has the tank set that is. My honest vote is we work on the ones that aren't pulling numbers. Proper spec and rotation can mean a 10k DPS change in someone. I think if we can get the few that are low up to par, we have it. Other than that it is a mechanic thing. We have had most of our wipes due to mechanic fails. This includes everyone, I have failed, rose even failed once, monj failed a couple times, it just happens. Everyone has to have their hearts set on the win or tiny fragments of time will make or break us. Honestly based on gear and memory, Bey has a heal set FAR superior to mine, with a little reforging I think that him healing and me going back to DPS could make a huge change in things as well. But I don't know if he wants to stop DPSing and start healing again, I have no clue what his spec of choice is. All this should be discussed at a little meeting tonight. If bey is down for the swap, I am too. I may have to take a short loan for reforges though, I think I have the gold, but not sure right now, lol. And I can still heal in my boomkin gear, since I have some healing set pieces I can just swap out. I'll have less regen, but the throughput will still exist, plus with my boomkin form we have that lovely 5% haste buff for our casters.

One other thing to mention here that Ash pointed out as well.

We need 2 people to have 2 solid roles. Heals/dps.
For example Ash being Resto/Boom and Rado Holy/Ret.

That is one of the factors in whether or not you are chosen to be in the raid group. If you don't want to have a good dps spec that can pull its weight, then you are not the healer we need.
If Rado is seriously opposed to going Ret on some fights, I can try and get dps gear for Shadow.

Also, Ash...in feral you will be competing for gear with Monj (agil gear) You shoulda stayed Boom lol (just sayin')

I know Rado said he doesn't want to dps, so we will have to discuss with him if he wants to stay in the Heroic group, it's a must for him to be able to go Ret and pull the proper amount of dps we will need, unless we want to spend weeks gearing me for Shadow. I have no dps gear, no dps trinkets...it doesn't matter that spirit converts to hit. In my healing gear, I can't pull much more than 15-20k dps in shadow.

Yep yep, we will get into vent a bit early tonight and try to figure this out.

I am also not opposed to moving to a different boss, but I still think we could 2 heal Ultrax if all of our dps was optimized.
(I know we will still wipe to missed mechanics etc) Wiping though because our dps it too low is an entirely different animal than wiping because we screwed up.
Those wipes are to be expected.
But...if we know we have the numbers (and are actually pulling them) then wiping isn't that bad when we KNOW we CAN down the boss.

If that made sense lol

so.. ya... um vent before raid would be cool and as far as our dps goes the weak links atm are Bey,Star, and kinda lucy.. altho lucy has improved vastly in a mer week in Fire so i say after a few more goes she will be at the 30k mark no problem. Bey in climbing but not where we need him to be. and Star.. i have no clue whats up with him? he should be doing 30k+ imo with his gear in SV or MM. and the whole gear not good enuf issue is BS with anyone. the first people to down these bosses "BEFORE" the 15% nerf were rocking 391 FL heroic gear .so anyone sitting over the 390 mark just needs to do some reserch on said class. but im sure we talked about this when we decided to do heroics. am i wrong? so instead of everyone getting all nerd ragey i think the proper choice would be to ask them to sit. but our issue is we dont have the back up dps that pull the numbers we need also. but my vote would be to go back to Yorvage considering it is the proper DS advancment Blizz wants us to take. we only pulled that boss 10 times by my count and we are going to need alot more trys on any boss in heroics.
now what i see going on is.. we are on the edge of making our raid team"hardcore" for lack of a better word and i know we dont want to go down that route. so we can work on bosses and let it be? or we can recrut and kick those who dont have the time or want to give the time to do what they need to do to come to par with the rest. AND!!!!! everything we have said in thses last replys have been WAY off topic of what i started the post for

Again, I would have stayed boom but If i reset my gear to boomkin standards I wont last long fights healing. Otherwise give me the go ahead and I'll log in and respec and forge ASAP.

i guess this thread is still "plans for launch" and i assume you mean retail launch so here's mine:

my hunter will still be my main. i'll be spending the beta learning every damnable intricacy of the new hunter systems and be a hunter research monkey on all three specs for the guild's benefit.

i'll be going for getting LW to the new max ASAP, so i can start crafting stuff for our leather/mail raiders

depending on how i like the pandarens and the monk class during beta i'll be trying my hand at monk healing, and actively taking the palading paladin prot/ret.

unfortunately for timing i'm still going to opt for being just a raid spot fill-in when needed and not try to be in the raid core. staying up until 3am screws me at work the next day, and screws the rest of you by me not being able to provide 100% quality play.

aside from that, other plans include giving you all crap and shenanigans in general immediately after launch.

Tush just think of all the new fire there will be to stand in!!!

haha VERY CUTE.

i don't believe me going to fire was an issue after my new laptop. fire finding ME on the other hand...

where the fuck is everybody?????????????????????????????????????? 9 bosses down heroics start this next week and i really need at least the core 6 with me!! and i know you all have beta fuckers!!!