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Addressing our raid issues...

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Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:39 pm

Before things fall apart (lol) we need to address a few issues we've been having these last few weeks.

Not showing up to raid with no excuse, more than once...you're going to get replaced. Everyone has the ability to text or post here to let others know they can't make it. If you are unable to show that courtesy, then you will be replaced.
We all know and understand that circumstances are sometimes going to interfere with raid nights. Totally understandable. But there's no excuse not to show the minimum amount of courtesy by letting us know you can't make it.

Not listening to directions. Not listening to the raid leader is really killing us. Screw ups are going to happen but making a habit out of it is annoying at the least and rude to the rest of the raid. Pay attention please and do your job. If you don't like your job or cannot do it, let the raid leader know so they can assign you a different position.

Not being geared is not an excuse for poor raid awareness. From a healer perspective, I can see who has good raid awareness. Not having gear is not why you are dying. You are dying because you are standing in shit. No amount of gear is going to make the healers want to go OOM healing you. Stop.

Whining about gear that you didn't get is pointless. If you see someone making a habit out of rolling on shit that they don't need, that is an issue. Losing a single piece of gear however, is not. Let it go. We don't need drama in the guild and it makes raiding more stressful.

Whining about people not doing their dailies or whatever is also getting old. Noone should feel obligated to log in on non-raid nights if they don't want to. Make sure you know your job and you perform well. Don't stand in shit. Listen to the raid leader and follow directions. That is how we will succeed. In time, everyone will get better gear.
While we need a reasonably good gear score in order to succeed, that is only a fraction of the problem. We need to focus on what is really going wrong and stop blaming gear. Please.

Allowing personal drama to affect your performance. This is why we don't need drama in the guild. If you have an issue with a raid member, bring it to the raid leader (or the guild leaders or officers) attention and discuss it constructively. Being upset about something and complaining about it doesn't help anyone. If something is important enough to be addressed, then discuss it with the leaders. Otherwise, let it go and don't make the rest of the raid suffer because you are performing poorly due to inner drama. If you don't feel you can perform well, let someone know before the raid so you can be replaced (with ample time to replace you please)

I know losing Manty as a tank is a big loss, but we can adjust. Nsain and Bey are doing a good job tanking and will get even better as they get in more practice and get used to working together as a tank team.

I am setting up a guild meeting for this Sunday evening at 9:30 server for all raiders. We need to get organized and figure out who is leaving, who is staying etc. Some people aren't having fun anymore. Don't feel obligated to raid if you don't want to. Just let us know so we can form a solid 10 man group again.

We need to get back to having fun, but also start taking the raid a little more seriously. It's not fun to waste time. Find a balance between having fun and performing well at raid. Smile
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Radomize on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:24 pm

I always know when you post it is going to be a short novel.

I completely agree with you though, I mean, I am still having fun. I wanna start killing shit though. We should be done with this raid. I hate to say this against what Monj was saying, be we didn't have a healing issue. We were doing 100k+ heals between the two of us. People are doing stupid shit over and over again. That is what causes our healing issue. We should be on past this raid as well into the next one by now. Yet, we are on the 4th boss. It didn't take us this long to be 4/8 HEROIC in the last raid.

Long story short, we gotta make changes for the people who are willing to progress through the raid, before we start losing those members because they don't want to bash there heads anymore. We kicked ass in Cata. What the hell happened?
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:48 pm

No, you're right. It wasn't a healing issue. It was impossible to keep ourselves, the dps AND the tanks alive, even with over 100k heals. That means something is wrong.

That is plenty of healing lol

The problem is 80% raid awareness and simply not listening to the raid leader. People just are not doing what they should be doing. That particular fight is very unforgiving.

At the end of Cata, we could heal stupid. It was no big deal. It's not like that now, but people got in the habit of being healed through shit and not paying attention. We were geared to the max and had nearly unlimited mana. Now we have a set mana pool, the fights are new mechanics and nothings been nerfed significantly enough to slack off.

That is what I want to discuss this Sunday. Who is staying and who is going? And who is willing to step it up and start raiding like a raider. Healers can't carry anymore. Fang can't do all the dps anymore. And Manty isn't here to tell you to stop being a dumbass (Monj is too nice) lol

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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Radomize on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:11 pm

I am behind you guys 100%. We got to start acting like good raiders again. We have always found the most complicated way possible to beat the bosses. That isn't the case anymore. We have to quit relying on luck, and start using skill. I am even having to lay on hands and bubble people almost at the start of fights and I shouldn't. I understand certain occasions something stupid happens, but it is EVERY pull.

But we will discuss this all further on Sunday. We might need to get another raid leader since we don't have Monty anymore. Just while he is gone.
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Raid issue

Post by Monjoben on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:19 pm

I didn't mean to imply there was a healer issue in last nights raid...healer performance was not the issue at all. What I was saying is we could not heal through the mechanics of this fight despite our healer's best efforts.

The burden of this fight is on the tanks and tank damage mitigation potential vs. the tanks ability to soak damage. A pally tank is far more suited for this particular fight but we can't let that hinder our efforts. We actually had 3 new dynamics in this boss fight last night to deal with, tank change, dps change in the spirit realm and callout change. Even one new dynamic is going to cause a learning curve and have a greater impact on a more difficult fight like that one.

Yes there were some listening issues and our raid awareness overall needs to improve but even in Cata part of the formula was identifying the folks who performed better in certain roles.

Change has occurred in our line-up and may continue to occur and we need to be able adapt to the new dynamics, reduce drama and figure out if we are going to be able to put together a solid raid "team" or if our raid makeup is going to be more fluid as we move forward.

As far as our progress goes in comparison to Cata, remember that we did not beat even the normal content completely pre-nerf. The fact that we are beating MOP bosses pre-nerf is an accomplishment in itself but we are looking at more difficult boss fights this go around.

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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Radomize on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:10 pm

You stumble on here on accident Monj?

I get what you mean monj. People gotta quit messing up. I get what you are saying though. Even changing out raid members should not hinder us this much. Nsain and Moon are both badass raiders and are not really messing up at all. Especially moon, and Nsain just because he hasn't been tanking for a while.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:24 pm

It sucks because on a personal level, I "like" everyone in our raid and hate to be the one pointing this out...but it's really some of the regular dps that is screwing up the worst.

And I am going to be the bad guy here and just say...Elf not showing up on so many occasions is putting us all to the test, especially because even when he is here...his dps is low. Keeping his raid spot open to him when he doesn't let us know he isn't going to show is unfair to the rest.
I love the guy...he's one of the nicest people here...but he's gotta let us know what's up and try a bit harder to bring up his dps.

I think those who are messing up know who they are so I'm not going to be an ass and call them out. Just try to remember that although this is a game...it's wasting other peoples time when you make a habit out of slacking off.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Mikoda on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:37 pm

Apparently I missed out on more than I thought...

On a side note - My internet is FINALLY back... Had to pay a 15$ reactivation charge / late fee.... BUT I did text 3 different people and let yall know I was either going to be late or not make it, due to me forgetting to pay my internet bill... I just realized it was almost the end of the month today, and my bill is usually due on the 27th.

As far as boss difficulty, overall the bosses are easier. All of the mechanics are very simple and drawn out in the first raid and a half, non heroic, and are easy to mitigate issues..... For a non casual group. One issue we have, is that we have a reasonably unbalanced group as far as class stacking, and we have to figure out ways to work around that little issue.

As far as raid awareness, well.... We all make Tush look good here lately, so lets keep working on that, all fights take time to learn, and we need our core team to be prepared for each boss as much as possible. Personally I take time and raid on the PTR from time to time, watch videos, read articles, and watch more videos. BUT, I have a lot more free time during the day than some, so this can't be expected of everyone.

As far as drama? Well, our core group is a mix of hardcore, casual, social, and ultra casual. Drama is created when people do things out of pure dickery, and in spite. The single piece of gear issue, although was a little blown out of proportion from the perspective others have, was a real issue. The statement made on that was "Oh, I just DE'ed it, it was [junk]" And it was DE'ed during raid that night, so a window of trade was never made available. There is more to it, but Those that listened in on my testimony are the only ones that need to hear about it. Also, drama is caused when someone tries telling others how to play their class. Personally, I hounded monj for weeks about his talents, and when he gave them a go, we all saw his DPS increase, this was insightful information, and not given in disgust, and I never heard a complaint, so as far as I know, I didn't get too pushy about it. A real issue is created when someone tries to tell someone how to play a class that they don't play, or a spec they don't use. Like, a feral druid telling a rogue how to DPS, or a boomkin telling a warlock how to play, or especially an arcane, frost, or fire mage, telling another spec how to play. On that same note, I gave Luci insight on why living bomb is optimal for frost, due to it having more ticks and more chances to proc frostfire bolts, and it's added 10% damage effect to said spell. But, I play a frost mage, so my insight was from experience.

Reading info on a class doesn't make you good at that class, nor will it ever hurt you. As per the charts - Arcane and frost are the highest DPS, followed by frost/UH DK and warlocks (I think afflic warlocks are actually 3rd or so) at 470+ where All three hunter specs are at tthe bottom, and boomkin are 4th. Looking at our raid, our top DPS are a fire mage (works) Boomkin (uhhhhh) and a warlock (works) and our lowest is a DK. So, clearly knowing your class is important, but just because you read your class is high, and you are low, doesn't mean you suck, it means you need to figure out what is missing, and just readjust. Same goes the other way around, if you read your class is low, and you are topping the charts, well, you just are doing something the testers didn't.

Learn, play, live. Don't be part of the game, it's just a game, and try not to let the game control you.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:54 pm

Yes, you did let people know and we were informed Ass. We all understand that shits going to happen sometimes. All we ask is to be informed so we aren't stuck standing around in SW trying to pug out the spot of the person who just didn't show with no explanation.

I don't know anything about the gear drama other than what Monj told me. But frankly, it didn't sound like something worth being upset about for a month. Maybe I don't know the whole story...but what I do know is that it's not worth hanging onto for that long. If it's a habitual thing, that's different.
For crying out loud...I've gotten over RL issues faster than that. That was like a month ago LOL

Anyway...again...if there's an issue...that's what the leaders are there for. If you can't just let it go...then discuss it privately with someone in charge. Don't huddle together like teenagers and talk shit in vent. It's just silly.
Everyone knows that Monj is reasonable and fair...he's the raid leader. Discuss it with him if you have a raid/gear issue.
If you have a guild issue, discuss it with me.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Mikoda on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:13 pm

Honestly Rose, I didn't go to you with it, because although you are our guild leader, you are not the one that claims charge in raid. Monj and Monty run shit, so I got with them first, Monty takes care of loot, so it went from him to where it was.

Rose, you do way more than enough for the guild by just being a voice from time to time and keeping us together as a group.

I don't have any priorities in raid, above taking care of whatever role I am in, so I stepped in, and took over counseling with people that had issues, trying to keep it from escalating too far. And to be fair, Fang was warned abruptly that his presence wasn't very welcomed in vent, and he still smarted off. Which is what fang does, and we all know this. hence, we all understand to deal with it, but if I hop into raid and I hear that I am not welcomed, I will find a clear channel and chill.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:31 pm

hmm I guess I knew even less than I thought then. I didn't know it had gotten that bad.

First I even heard about it was this last week. And even then I only heard about it because Monj mentioned that Lucy and Kip were feeding off each other in vent and getting themselves even more worked up over shit. Then I was told a quick version of the loot issue.

And that's good Ass. Makes sense. Raid issues should be brought to the raid leaders for sure. Not that I'm not willing to take on any issues myself...I want to keep things drama-free and friendly at all costs...but I'm not really into the whole "gear shoulda been mine" thing. That's why I gave Manty loot control in the first place. lol

We'll be fine. We just need to have a meeting and get things worked out. I'm not going to lose my good raiders and friends over something dumb like this. Fang is a good raider and I consider him a friend. If he feels unwelcome in the vent or doesn't want to raid with us anymore...then I'll know who to blame LOL
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Radomize on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:53 pm

As far as I am concerned non of our members should ever be unwelcome in vent. In a way, we are like a big Internet family, and we should treat it as such. Or Mamma and Pappa Rose and Monj will be very upset with us.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:09 pm

That's right Rado.

Santa won't come this year if any of you are bad...think about that!
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Mikoda on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:23 pm

Rado... that's a little creepy, especially granted that most of our raid team is older than rose, or about the same age, lol.

But yes, I feel every member should do what they can for the others. Issues to discuss at the meeting, since I doubt I will be online unless I can actually get away from family a while...


Drama Llama - Tramples all Raiders - drops no loot, but gives epic achieves for defeating.

Lord Skiparaidwithoutwarning - A demonic aura surrounds this fiend, it kills raid nights, wipes hardcore groups, and needs to be avoided at all cost. Has infinite health, and 35 one shot mechanics. Whether it's to raid with another guild, Bey's wife dying, or elf..... whatever happens... We need a heads up of at least "X" Hours/Minutes/Days/Weeks/Months -

Drak' Idonplay Yerclass Buttell 'Yahowto - Play your own damned class and spec, if you share a spec or class, confer INSIGHT not downspeak. Saying someone else is holding us back because they aren't reforging X to Y doesn't help, Just say "Hey, try reforging X to Y, W and Z stats aren't as helpful point per point." and see what they say. If they say no? Well, fuck it, to each their own.


I have been under debate for MONTHS on joining a heroic raid team for Monday - Friday - Sunday raiding. the base of the team will be starting in HoF regs, and doing MSV Heroics. I play on leveling a NEW TOON for that team, and gearing them. I am focusing on my mage right now. IF anyone in raid (specifically Luci or Fang) would like to change the toon they use for OUR raids, and allow a new mage into the mix, I would MUCH prefer having my already 480ish toon walk into heroics than having to suffer gearing through LFR, valor, and other shit as much. Mage is sitting on 460 Ilvl as soon as it hits 90 (a few levels away) so it wont take long to get ready. My mage is Arcane/Frost when it is 90, so you will see a different mix. Mostly Arcane when I do raid, since I like the spec. Otherwise, I will just be running HoF with them anyway, since that is the Monday group. IF we ever get done in MSV - and move on to HoF (which the fights are more fun, yet a LOT harder) then I will swap around. To those interested, There is a spot open for a MSV heroic for a healer/tank hybrid. Ash will going in strictly as DPS, since that is ALL I gear for.

Just in case I can't make the meeting, yall know what is going on in my mind. Most of you know me fairly well, I am a very mellow person, but I take raids seriously. I was a hardcore raider from early vanilla in LBRS and UBRS all the way until Ulduar and ToC. Starting in cata, I stopped doing that, mainly because I was tired of being in charge of people, and managing a raid team and guild is VERY tough for non casuals. I WILL NOT take a officer spot in this guild, nor will I organize raids for you, but I plan to be active and help as much as I can. If asked, I can do whatever is needed, and happily. I love you guys, yall are all awesome, and even though I can be an ass I think you all know where I come from, and that I am truly here only to help out with everything. thank you all for being my gaming family, and for taking me in over a year ago and letting me be a part of the awesome things we have done!
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Fangcaster on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:18 pm

its all broken in my eyes atm Smile but ya the gear thing if it was my issue with ..Kip.. or Lucy..? or even rose im sorry Smile if i had said anything un-pleasent.. it would have been all in good fun and/or being tired. gear is never my goal but i talk about it cuz it is 70% of this game Smile and they wernt equiped cuz i was lvling an alt. and FFS we are adults ..talk.. your not going to ofend me.. im not going to show up at your house or tell your mommy(monjee) on you lolol sorry had to say it ... i do plan on bring my hunter in to raid so it eases up on our gear issues other have if i cant hack it i expect to be told and not sure yet but i will be droping tuesdays with our guild but still want to raid thursdays if thats cool?? if not then soooo be it Smile have fun and play Smile p.s. im with Rose and Monjeee on whatever they say:) unless its a gay threesome... I'll show up and film.. but thats where i draw the line Smile
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:46 pm

Fang I have never known you to be a loot whore. We've been raiding together for over a year. You are usually the first one to give away loot if you think someone else wants or needs it. That is why this whole silly thing wasn't taken as seriously as some people would have liked.

You have also shown up to every single raid without fail, with the exception of Tuesdays raid. You've always pulled your weight (even more than you should have needed to really)

Those who were stirring up drama need to think about that and settle down.
Really, the whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

Anyway...enough about the stupid loot.

The focus needs to be on getting our shit together if we are going to raid like raiders Smile

Bring your hunter if you want Fang. It's all good with me and Monj. We know whatever toon you bring that you'll be on your A game.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Fangcaster on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:49 pm

ohhh i read more.. damn this is a serious talk -.-... ok... (number one) Im not sure how all this drama is even coming to be?!? considering that we only talk to each other on raid nights for the most part... (number B) the passive aggressive bull shit is what has made me personally look into other teams to do heroics with along with maybe Monty taking a break... (letter 7) I'm using you all to means for an end in this game and will continue to do so unless you feel my efforts arent helping you with said means to the end in this game. Now i cant speak for Elf... but myself i should have text Rose to let her know before hand instead of just not acepting the invite from the ingame method. my bad im sorry... and when im trying to tell people what to do on their class its cuz we have always tried to help and/or fix players instead of just dropping weak links.. am i wrong? and i will not take fucking banter from anyone Ass.. if you have something to say fucking say it to me Smile (wheew its hard to keep up with all these long posts) lol... Now Ass you can have your huddle with your click and decide my fate at will.. I'm sure Monj and Rose will chosse the many over the few no matter who it is making these remarks cuz they have always been good at these things and is why most of us raid with them Smile oh.. and if lucy is mad at me?? i still have no idea why and havent heard from her at all Wink now the air is clear cant wait to hear from you all Sunday and talk RAID.. thats what we are actually here to do with each other still im sure Smile
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Fangcaster on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:50 pm

damn it Rose LOL i didnt get to mod my post berfore you posted.. my whole post was drama LOLOL <3
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Mikoda on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:23 am

uggh. such horrifying grammar.... From what I can read *you know how much I pick on you about grammar fang) You want us to reserve a thursday spot for you, without you having been in on Tuesday ? Yeah, not just you, but anyone at all, should not be allowed that. If we need an extra because one person that was there doesnt show, then thats fine, but it isn't right to lock someone out to 2-3 bosses then make them have to find another group to finish if they can make it.

And there is no banter, I have nothing against you other than what I have said to you directly. You are an ass, you talk shit, and you have a giant head. These are well known things to the whole guild. BUT your means of "helping" people, come off as telling them what to do. You have a very aged undertone when you speak to people, and it makes them feel like you are talking shit. Insight is positive, and the way you tell people what to do is not positive at all.

That said, lowering moral of the raid, even one member, is what is killing us. Think about what you want to say, say it to yourself, then see if you think it is needed to be said.

Also - Please use commas, periods, and spacing in between sentences....
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:29 am

Ass calling someone an ass?

I don't even...

I can't...

I...
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Mikoda on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:31 am

^.^ Takes one to know one Razz
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Fangcaster on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:00 am

Finally a name is used (mission completed) And on the issue of Thursday nights i will speak to our raid leader about this but thank you for your interest Smile
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Mikoda on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:41 am

Wheels of fate are to be spun by the raid leaders then. I wonder which panel will fall....
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:31 pm

We don't care which toon people bring to the raid as long as:

A. You show up REGULARLY
B. Your alt is doing a comparable amount of dps/heals/tanking skills as your main

The last thing we need right now is people bringing toons that are even worse lol

I understand wanting to take mains to do heroics. Hell, I could go get a few pieces of LFR gear, get gemmed and chanted and be the same (or higher) gear level than you are Ass, and then go join a heroic raid. I hear healers are in demand Razz
But I made a commitment to this raid and I don't want to make it even harder on everyone.
I do plan to level up my hunter in order to have a "fun" toon to raid with later...once we've cleared enough content to comfortably do so.
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Rose
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

Post by Rose on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:38 pm

Also, keep in mind that we are having Sundays meeting to establish a solid 10 man and to discuss why we are sucking so badly (haha)

Anyone who plans on taking their main out of the raid group needs to let us know ON SUNDAY, not wait a week or two and then do it. So Ass, if you are seriously considering taking your main out...don't wait around.
One of the issues we are having is not having 10 regulars. Every time we bring in a new toon, it's a new dynamic...it sets us back again.

If your alt dps does comparable dps, you're more than welcome to bring it. If not, and you decide to raid elsewhere with your main, I hate to say it...but we will need to replace you with a comparable dps.

Same goes for anyone else. I know Fangs hunter does comparable dps to his mage. So that's fine.

Anyway...we've got to get this organized on Sunday and stick with it.
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Re: Addressing our raid issues...

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